Punk's Not Dead

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H: We're struggling with that in this country, trying to define the core values that we're fighting for.

B: It's that chestnut argument, which unfortunately does have some weight to it: The antiglobalization movement is a positive thing, but what is it for? You want someone to come out and say, "Another world is possible." And tell me what values that other world is based on. What is our alternative to globalization?

H: Well, what do you think?

B: In the old days, we would have talked about abolishing capitalism. Now we have to approach from a different angle. I would like to start aspiring to a world based upon cooperation rather than competition. That could be the slogan of the antiglobalization movement. I recognize that it's not an ideological idea, but it's as good as "Workers of the world unite," isn't it?

The social justice agenda is important, but it has to include economic justice as well. It's all very well for people to have their human rights, but what good are they if they can't get an education or feed their families? It is, unfortunately, still the economy, stupid, with regard to making the world a better place.

We're trying to find a political manifestation of the altruistic feelings that we all have toward one another. By talking about cooperation, not competition, we're making people understand that the rights of the individual can only be guaranteed by the collective responsibility of the rest of society. Human rights are reciprocal. You have no rights if I don't and everybody else doesn't respect your rights.

H: You're talking about power in the community?

B: Or the reciprocity of life. All of us have rights, but our rights are limited by our responsibilities to our fellow human beings. For example, no one has the right to fly an airplane into a building or put a bomb on the London Underground. We need to be restating those values, because since the late 20th century, those ideas have been in a dangerous state of flux.

H: What role does the union have in a world where manufacturing takes place thousands of miles away?

B: If we're going to talk about cooperation, not competition, the unions have an important role to play. The reason jobs disappear to other parts of the world is all about competition, about trying to bring the American economy down to a competitive level with the Indian economy or the Chinese economy.

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